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1:1 Sprite Ratio Revealed...Sandbox - Friant vs Cooke SR1

5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 8 months ago #1 by RebBugler

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  • As promised, a demonstration of this games 1:1 sprite ratio capabilities.

    Sandbox - Friant vs Cooke SR1 Version 1.2, 17 July 2015

    Attention: After selecting this mod Resign and restart the game. If the mod remains selected this will only have to be done once.

    Follow these procedures for SR1 (1:1 Sprite Ratio) gameplay:
    - After selecting mod, resigning and restarting, go to the Options Menu. On Options page 2 adjust Sprite Ratio to 1
    - Continue to Sandbox and select same named OOB
    - Select Corps vs Corps to play either Friant or Cooke. Next names down are Division vs Division, etc.


    More information to follow as version upgrades are made available. At present consider this as an entry level blueprint to demonstrate how the game handles SR1 designs and gameplay. And feel free to mod this, perhaps dividing it into 3 Arms groupings to accommodate MP play better.

    Please excuse the use of cloned names for the French. It appears that Petit was a brigade CO and also was in charge of a regiment with the traditional two battalions. Also, it appears that all French regimental commanders commanded both battalions (within each regiment). I did my online searches, but got nada but regimental commanders, not a battalion leader to be found, or second in command...so help here would be greatly appreciated. I know books are more definitive in this regard, apologizes, but I've got limited resources here in backwoods Arkansas, plus my old eyes don't do well with book learnin' anymore.

    Unzip and copy into the Mods folder

    File Attachment:

    File Name: Sandbox-Fr...eSR1.zip
    File Size:7 KB




    Realism Revealed with SR1 play:

    - As each soldier falls, one casualty is recorded in the casualty stat box
    - Exact casualties are shown on the battlefield, bodies do not disappear unless opted
    - Easier to spot the REAL gaps left by enemy fire, so decisions on when to relieve a unit are easier
    - See what REAL battalions looked like, whether divided into 10 companies as were the allies, 6 companies French, or 4 companies Prussian.
    - See why cavalry regiments were divided into squadrons of 100 to 200 horsemen, as squadrons are still mighty unto themselves.
    - Understand why cavalry regiments would have been impossible to control for their roles in battle
    - See why, although powerful, a cavalry squadron could never rout a large battalion, but could take out several companies.
    ...and the list goes on

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    Last edit: 5 years 8 months ago by RebBugler. Reason: Version 1.2
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    5 years 9 months ago #2 by Gunfreak

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  • This will be epic!

    I hope to try it today, but got a new puppy, so probebly won't have much time to sit on the pc
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    5 years 9 months ago #3 by Gunfreak

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  • How did you get past the max 200 sprites thing? Just made the company a unit?

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    5 years 9 months ago #4 by Saddletank

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  • Yes, that is how 1:1 has to be done. With a 200 sprite/unit limit you can have up to 200 man companies instead of up to 1200 man battalions (at 6:1).

    Brigades then become battalions with brigadiers as colonels.

    Divisions become brigades with divisional generals as brigadiers.

    Corps become divisions.

    Armies become corps.

    The entire operational level of the game drops one notch.

    HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.
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    5 years 9 months ago #5 by Gunfreak

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  • But how to keep battlion integrity?

    If companies behave like battalions, it becomes a right mes.

    While yes at times companies did fight as separate units (particularly in urban combat ) they normally did not have the same "frededom" as battalions.

    How do you stop it from just looking like a company is a battlion?

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    5 years 9 months ago #6 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • But how to keep battlion integrity?
    If companies behave like battalions, it becomes a right mes.

    It's the price you pay for playing with a 1:1 ratio.


    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
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    5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #7 by Saddletank

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  • Good questions.

    Its why I don't play 1:1, because IMHO the game engine isn't designed for it and can't handle it.

    You could try a 1:1 mod and create new brigade formations so that the companies keep together in a more battalion-like manner but this would involve moving the brigade as a whole unit and the AI may still not execute this very well.

    1:1 scale games are best played at the very small level where the individual companies of a battalion are treated as the manoeuvre elements; there are numerous small-scale Napoleonic actions where battle reports mention this being done.

    HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.
    Last edit: 5 years 9 months ago by Saddletank.
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    5 years 9 months ago #8 by Gunfreak

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  • Saddletank wrote: Good questions.

    Its why I don't play 1:1, because IMHO the game engine isn't designed for it and can't handle it.

    You could try a 1:1 mod and create new brigade formations so that the companies keep together in a more battalion-like manner but this would involve moving the brigade as a whole unit and the AI may still not execute this very well.

    1:1 scale games are best played at the very small level where the individual companies of a battalion are treated as the manoeuvre elements; there are numerous small-scale Napoleonic actions where battle reports mention this being done.


    Yeah, I tried it now(havn't seen action yet, so I can not say what it looks like in actualy battle)

    But the cav are deffinatly the winners of 1:1

    They looks great, probebyl the only time I have really gotten a sence of how big squdrons are.

    But infatnry are loosers, they don't like companies, they just look like battalions like they have always done.

    Unless you can super code the companies to be forced to move like comapnies in a battalion it's going to look odd.

    I look forward to seeing how all this looks in battle. Havn't found those french yet!
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    5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #9 by RebBugler

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  • Thanks guys! All great comments and feedback. Some may construe that there are some negative comments toward this game's SR1 capabilities, but I don't see it that way...some reverse psychology going on here, if you get my drift.

    Pros:

    - For those doubting this game's SR1 capabilities, here's proof in the pudding, exact casualty figures are seen as they happen and are recorded accurately (with the exception of artillery, but a whole different animal because all the level 6 artillery design elements are combined: gun, gun crew, etc.)

    - Holes left in lines during firefights provide immediate visual insight as opposed to just seeing casualties fall or being represented on the ground...Advantage Player. Otherwise, as with SR6 (stock ratio), a gap doesn't occur until 6 of the same sprite are killed, with one casualty on the ground representing all six (after the first, the remainder fade away, as they must, otherwise a stack of dead sprites, ugly and unrealistic). Sure, you'll see them all drop, if you're looking. But without constantly eye-balling the individual battalions' casualty counts, the player doesn't have quick visuals to affectingly access his damage and react.

    - Cavalry squadrons reflect why they were, nothing more to be said, Gunfreak is a believer now, as he questioned this logic and design before, as did others. Regardless, this is the historic design.

    - Provides for interesting and entertaining battalion level scenarios. Also small brigade engagements that include the 3 Arms could be well represented historically and entertaining I do believe.

    - THE BIG PICTURE: Provides a microcosm visually (two divisions as opposed to dozens of divisions) of what the battle of Waterloo actually looked like, in regard to numbers and how the units were laid out.

    Cons:

    - Physical limitations, the obvious, as folks see their FPS rates drop with the small division sizes represented here. This includes AI limitations, I believe we are many years away from the amount of AI cycles necessary for the AI to be competitive beyond a one division face-off level.

    - Human limitations! On the army level we'd need a disclaimer: Warning, command and control may lead to convulsions and inevitable insanity.

    - Battalions don't behave like companies...threw this in for the KS guys, but I disagree. I've heard this argument before but I have never been convinced of it's merit. The smallest unit is the smallest unit, be it company or battalion. From there the chain of command works it's way up the same way regardless of where it starts. The only difference I see is it's harder to control 10 companies than the typical 5 battalions. Still, I respect and will listen to arguments otherwise, but more than likely I'll stay mute and agree to disagree.

    - All the other stuff that needs to be adjusted to be totally realistic - musket and artillery ranges (engagement distances), run and walk speeds, map scaling, etc.



    The reverse psychology factor...
    Warning: Spoiler!

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    Last edit: 5 years 9 months ago by RebBugler.
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    5 years 9 months ago #10 by Destraex

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  • Did you make the map bigger to get the scale right for this?
    Very excited to see any footage you have of this mod:)

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    5 years 9 months ago #11 by RebBugler

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  • Destraex wrote: Did you make the map bigger to get the scale right for this?
    Very excited to see any footage you have of this mod:)


    With sandbox player opts a map. So no, this is just an example mod of how to reconfigure an OOB to demonstrate SR1.

    Not sure what you mean by footage. Download the mod, play it, and draw your own conclusions as to whether SR1 play improves your immersion. BTW, if not historically referenced, map scaling is not necessary.

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    5 years 8 months ago #12 by RebBugler

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  • Update to version 1.2, OOBNames file is now in mod form...Initial warning removed.

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    5 years 8 months ago #13 by Crikey

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  • Hi Reb - hope all well.

    If I want to port over some OOBs it looks like I need to amend one of the .xml files to ensure the OOB names for commanders/sub units etc display correctly in the Sandbox display screen and then in game.

    Is it OOBnames.xml?

    And is there an easy way to import each entry? Or do I have to edit every line by hand?

    :(

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    5 years 8 months ago #14 by RebBugler

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  • Crikey wrote: Hi Reb - hope all well.

    If I want to port over some OOBs it looks like I need to amend one of the .xml files to ensure the OOB names for commanders/sub units etc display correctly in the Sandbox display screen and then in game.

    Is it OOBnames.xml?

    And is there an easy way to import each entry? Or do I have to edit every line by hand?

    :(


    You are correct, and there's no easy way I know of. Right now it's line by mundane line, or more correctly, line by three mundane lines when including the additional info necessary.

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    5 years 8 months ago #15 by Crikey

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  • Thanks Reb.

    I feared as much. Porting OOBs becoming more painful. Ouch. :blink:

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    5 years 8 months ago #16 by 1st Texas Sharpshooters

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  • Hi,
    Thanx for a great mod! Its really fun to have small scale skirmish with companies 1:1.
    I have spent some time making each bataillon have 6 companies (1 voltigeur sprites), 1 grenadier sprites and 4 ligne sprites). It looks good and is great fun to detach the voltigeurs into open order in front of the btn.
    But the names of the units kind of mess up and I get all kind of "OOB_12 ...." etc and cant find out how the naming system works. Is it coded or is there a way to make my own unit/leader names?

    Thanx again...
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    5 years 8 months ago #17 by RebBugler

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  • 1st Texas Sharpshooters wrote: Hi,
    Thanx for a great mod! Its really fun to have small scale skirmish with companies 1:1.
    I have spent some time making each bataillon have 6 companies (1 voltigeur sprites), 1 grenadier sprites and 4 ligne sprites). It looks good and is great fun to detach the voltigeurs into open order in front of the btn.
    But the names of the units kind of mess up and I get all kind of "OOB_12 ...." etc and cant find out how the naming system works. Is it coded or is there a way to make my own unit/leader names?

    Thanx again...


    Excellent, glad to see someone expanding upon this 'basic' design. :)

    In order to add or change OOB names you must edit the 'Mods\Sandbox - Friant vs Cooke SR1\Layout\Media\Language\LanguageEnglishMod.xml'. Notepad++ is our app of choice for editing xml files, although most text apps should do.

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    John Bonin "2nd Texas Infantry" (1977 - 2012)
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    5 years 8 months ago #18 by 1st Texas Sharpshooters

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  • thanx for the fast and informative reply Reb!
    Im diggin in...

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    5 years 8 months ago #19 by 1st Texas Sharpshooters

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  • [/quote]Excellent, glad to see someone expanding upon this 'basic' design. :)

    In order to add or change OOB names you must edit the 'Mods\Sandbox - Friant vs Cooke SR1\Layout\Media\Language\LanguageEnglishMod.xml'.[/quote]

    Hi Reb,
    Im having some troubbles with the naming of leaders/units. Im editing the languageenglishMOD file but cant get anything to show up in game (only the "oob...").
    I returned to your mod and found that the companies in game dont display their names either.
    Am I missing something here?
    Best regards...

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    5 years 8 months ago #20 by RebBugler

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  • The Beta Patch kicks in the OOBNamesMod, make sure you have that, not the Matrix version Patch 1. If that doesn't work I'll revert this mod back to the full OOBNames listing which will have to do until things get sorted out with the patches.

    Expanded Toolbar - Grog Waterloo
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    __________________________________
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    Eric Schuttler "louie raider" (1970 - 2018)
    John Bonin "2nd Texas Infantry" (1977 - 2012)

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    5 years 8 months ago #21 by 1st Texas Sharpshooters

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  • RebBugler wrote: The Beta Patch kicks in the OOBNamesMod, make sure you have that, not the Matrix version Patch 1. If that doesn't work I'll revert this mod back to the full OOBNames listing which will have to do until things get sorted out with the patches.


    Hi Reb,
    I use the 1.006a and when I try running the mod without the patches I get the same problem with the names.
    I will do some bataillon formation practice untill the naming issue is fixed.
    Best regards...

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    5 years 8 months ago #22 by IronBMike

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  • Does anyone have some screenshots?

    Also, I am totally oblivious as how to sprites work, but would it be possible to just shrink the size of the sprites and make one sprite actually 3 men? So same frontage, same sprites, but smaller men, and say 3 men per sprite?

    I believe this was done in SMG/SMA for realistic scale mods, which made the men life-size (but look like ants) but it was neat.

    CWGII -> SMG -> SMA -> WNLB -> ANGV -> TC -> TC2M -> SOW

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    5 years 8 months ago #23 by RebBugler

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  • Cooke deploys...


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    __________________________________
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    Eric Schuttler "louie raider" (1970 - 2018)
    John Bonin "2nd Texas Infantry" (1977 - 2012)
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    5 years 8 months ago - 5 years 8 months ago #24 by More Alive

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  • RebBugler wrote: Please excuse the use of cloned names for the French. It appears that Petit was a brigade CO and also was in charge of a regiment with the traditional two battalions. Also, it appears that all French regimental commanders commanded both battalions (within each regiment). I did my online searches, but got nada but regimental commanders, not a battalion leader to be found, or second in command...so help here would be greatly appreciated. I know books are more definitive in this regard, apologizes, but I've got limited resources here in backwoods Arkansas, plus my old eyes don't do well with book learnin' anymore.

    Maybe you manage to access this site from Arkansas. I haven't checked Waterloo's but you should have 127 meg of sheer joy:
    theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=253661 Go to blue highlited TMP link then prompted to a pdf file, all zipped. Hope this helps.
    Edit: I went through Waterloo's and it doesn't go below Brigade. However this one should help:
    waterloo-1815.forumactif.com/t33-constitution-de-l-armee-du-nord-1er-corps
    [Army of the North 1st Corp OOB]; down to the Battalion commander from the 3rd post on. In French, if you need it I can translate it all.
    Last edit: 5 years 8 months ago by More Alive.
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