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Does the AI improve with repeat performances?

1 year 10 months ago #1 by massena

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  • Hi All

    Been playing Hulot's attack. I used to win following Darkrob's tactics. Now I don't. Is the AI better now?

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    1 year 10 months ago #2 by DarkRob

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  • Hi All

    Been playing Hulot's attack. I used to win following Darkrob's tactics. Now I don't. Is the AI better now?


    That video was recorded a long time ago. Patch 1.03 did introduce a number of AI enhancements, but none of them that I can think of should really have much of an impact on a scenario that small. It should still work now the same as it did then. I haven't played that particular scenario in a long time though, as the small brigade scenarios don't appeal to me that much anymore.

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    1 year 10 months ago #3 by massena

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  • Ok DarkRob. Thanks for that.

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    1 year 10 months ago #4 by RALB

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  • I am probably completely wrong but for a long time I have felt that the AI learns

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    1 year 10 months ago #5 by DarkRob

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  • I am probably completely wrong but for a long time I have felt that the AI learns


    It doesn't. There are variations in what it does, and no two playthroughs will ever be exactly the same, but it doesn't actually learn to play the game any better from one play to the next. If it did it wouldn't have kept walking up to brick wall defensive formations and letting me hand its head to it for the past 5 years.

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    1 year 10 months ago #6 by massena

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  • I think patch 1.03 must have significantly improved the AI -- if only for the Hulot's attack scenario-- since not one of the events there currently duplicates DarkRob's experience.

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    1 year 10 months ago #7 by DarkRob

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  • I think patch 1.03 must have significantly improved the AI -- if only for the Hulot's attack scenario-- since not one of the events there currently duplicates DarkRob's experience.


    In what way specifically? As I recall the Prussians just sit there while you charge across the bridge and take their artillery. The biggest thing I remember about that scenario is that the challenge is actually getting your men across the two bridges cohesively. What do the Prussians do differently now that they didn't before?

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    1 year 10 months ago #8 by massena

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  • Well, the first French unit across the bridge and making an immediate right initially captures most of the Prussian guns but then loses them to a counter-attack and is forced to retreat. The Prussians are not cleared out of the area.

    The second French unit across the bridge and charging both Prussian units on its left fails completely, is counter-charged and forced to retreat. The Prussians never run away.

    I ultimate gain the objective only with the help of reinforcements but by then its too late.

    But, you don't have to take my word for it. ;)

    Best
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    1 year 10 months ago - 1 year 10 months ago #9 by DarkRob

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  • Well, the first French unit across the bridge and making an immediate right initially captures most of the Prussian guns but then loses them to a counter-attack and is forced to retreat. The Prussians are not cleared out of the area.

    The second French unit across the bridge and charging both Prussian units on its left fails completely, is counter-charged and forced to retreat. The Prussians never run away.

    I ultimate gain the objective only with the help of reinforcements but by then its too late.

    But, you don't have to take my word for it. ;)

    Best


    All of that has happened to me as well. In fact I think I may have mentioned in the video(hazy, this is from like two years ago) that usually I have to hammer away at the Prussians over and over again to get them to break. Usually you end up wrecking your first three units. That's fine because you can bring up the other three units later on. You also don't need to rout or capture every Prussian infantry unit. Hit them enough times and they will pull back. The important thing is that they pull back and aren't in shape to come forward later on and shoot away at you while you're stuck in square once the Prussian cavalry arrive.

    If memory serves you only need 1000 points for a major victory, and that objective is worth 100 points a minute. So even if you have 0 points (which you shouldnt) and capture the objective with only 10 minutes remaining, it would still be enough.

    The key is the approach. Get your first three units over the two bridges as close together as possible. If you get countercharged by the Prussians by the guns, hit them with another unit. Then regroup and hit the Prussians on the other side. The cavalry doesn't arrive until later so it's not like you have to drive them off instantly. Just make sure they are in no shape to support their cavalry once they force you into square.
    Last edit: 1 year 10 months ago by DarkRob.
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    1 year 10 months ago #10 by massena

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  • Ok. That's what I'm doing -- but I've needed about 2 or 3 extra minutes to score Big Time.

    Not to make a Federal case out of it, but your video on this doesn't show what you or I (and others I presume) are now experiencing.

    Best

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    1 year 10 months ago - 1 year 10 months ago #11 by DarkRob

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  • Ok. That's what I'm doing -- but I've needed about 2 or 3 extra minutes to score Big Time.

    Not to make a Federal case out of it, but your video on this doesn't show what you or I (and others I presume) are now experiencing.

    Best


    The main thing the video is meant to show is how to make the approach and get your troops across the bridges cohesively and quickly. Thats the whole key to this scenario. At the time, no one knew how to do this and most playthroughs of this scenario looked something like this:



    At any rate, no two playthroughs of any scenario will ever be exactly the same. You will never be able to replicate 100% what you see in my video's because every time its going to be different. But the idea is the same. Combat outcomes can be different. Sometimes enemy units are more resiliant, sometimes they crumble easily. In that video even I said during that particular playthrough the Prussians dropped into my lap like ripe cherry's but that it didnt always happen like that.

    Anyhow, out of curiosity, and since its only 30 minutes long I decided to give that scenario a run through to see what it felt like today. It really is no different. I did basically the same stuff I did in that video, not exactly the same, not move for move, because thats not what those videos are meant to show, but the same basic idea, and I won easily with a little over 1800 points.

    The AI did not appear to me to be any better or worse than it did back then. The Prussian artillery is still firing at god knows what over at Wavre while my troops made their way over the bridge. I took one unit and attacked the guns while bringing up the unit behind it. The Prussian infantry went to countercharge my first unit but were taken in the rear by my 2nd unit coming right up behind them and they were forced to withdraw. I then took the first unit and detached them, deployed them in line behind the now captured artillery and deployed two 100 man skirmisher groups in front of the guns to screen them.

    With the guns screened and now peppering the Prussian unit with canister fire, they fell back even further and never were a factor in the battle again.

    With my weak unit detached I then took the two remaining fresh units in brigade assault column and headed for the Prussian unit closest to the bridge who were now deployed in line and firing at me. I slammed both of my units into it at the same time and off they went. I pursued them and hit them again in the same fashion, again they fell back, but did not rout. But they fell back far away and made no further attempt to be part of the engagement.

    I then took those same two units and headed for the final Prussian battalion. I did the same thing, a brigade level charge with both units at once and the result was the same. I again chased them down and hit them again. This time the Prussian unit routed, but also caused both of my units to retreat as they were both winded at this point. But they only fell back as far as the river at which time I moved them onto the objective along with the leader and the first, now weak battalion. Then I formed them all in square around the objective. I had the objective 12 minutes into the scenario. The two Prussian infantry units that remained on the field were far away from the objective at this point and made no further movements for the rest of the scenario. The Prussian cavalry came up and did nothing as they usually do with a square city in front of them and that was that.

    Like I said earlier, no two playthroughs are ever exactly the same, but this playthrough was in line with many other playthroughs of this scenario that I have done in the past and I really didnt notice anything about the AI's behavior or tactics that I havent seen it do before.

    The settings I used were the same as in all my videos. Default 0 sprite ratio/Normal Difficulty/Targeting display enabled/context menu disabled.
    Last edit: 1 year 10 months ago by DarkRob.
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    1 year 10 months ago #12 by massena

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