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KriegsSpiel Napoleon Mod 1.710

7 years 10 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #1 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • This mod builds upon Gunship's excellent Road To Wagram. In fact it incorporates his Baden, Dutch-Belgian, Nassau, Prussian and Russian sprites. They have been packed so they will work with his other sprites in MP battles. It reflects the combined efforts over the last 6 months by the KriegsSpiel group to produce a fairly accurate representation of Napoleonic era warfare given the limitations of the SOW game engine.

    With this mod, the game plays very differently than an ACW battle. Napoleonic battles were more of a combined arms affair where all three arms, infantry, cavalry and artillery participated in all aspects of the fight. Remarkably, with the right changes, the SOW engine does a fairly good job recreating this.

    In addition to the new sprites and the colorful display they make, a few other features are:

    1. Skirmishers perform very much as they did during the European wars. They lead an advance, are very hard to hit and deal out a great deal of punishment to formed troops. The only way to counter them is with your own skirmishers or advance on them with cavalry or infantry and drive them back. The AI uses them to good effect.

    2. Cavalry come in three basic types, light, medium and heavy. There are also lancers. Each has its own function. Unlike stock game cavalry, the AI handles these proficiently and in a very deadly manner. Primarily it will use them in support of the infantry which was their historic role during this time. If your battalion is caught out of square formation, they will likely have a very bad day. But don't be surprised if the AI uses them early to mangle your flank with his infantry in close support. As SOW does not know about squares, you will have to order their use yourself.

    3. A custom GUI which utilizes formations common during that period. These differed somewhat by country and that is reflected in the game. The French can advance in mixed order, the British fought in two rather than three ranks, etc.

    4. The courier order screen has been rewritten to reflect the new formations.

    5. Many of the SOW command maps have been redrawn to depict different European regions. Wood fences no longer have defensive value since they were not utilizes for that purpose. In fact, much of the terrain defensive and fatigue values have been modified to better reflect warfare of that time.

    6. The disastrous effect of flank or rear fire is accurately represented.

    The mod comes in two versions. If you play the game with a vertical resolution of 1024 or greater then you can use the large command maps: KSNapoleon Mod 1.710 Large Maps

    If your vertical resolution is less than 1024, (typical for laptops), use the small map version: KSNapoleon Mod 1.710 Small Maps

    The mod must be used with Gunship24's Road To Wagram. However, you must rename or delete the \Logistics folder in the Wagram mod. The KS Napoleon mod has all the necessary csv files. Also, make sure that this mod is BELOW the Wagram mod in SOW's Modifications Activation Screen.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
    Last edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Marching Thru Georgia.
    The following user(s) said Thank You: RDBoles, Jack ONeill, RebBugler, Tobe123, Zeke, Michael Slaunwhite, Grog, Ingles of the 57th, Martin James, Don and 4 other people also said thanks.

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    7 years 10 months ago #2 by Grog

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  • A massive thank you to MTG and Gunship (for providing the sprites)

    For those who have not yet tried the KS Nap mod, I recommend it highly.

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    7 years 10 months ago #3 by boxster

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  • Thanks very much for creating this. I am pretty new to this game and certainly new to modding it.

    I have the mod "Road to Wagram & Peninsular 1.6" installed and working(I have tested it). As per your instructions I renamed the "Logistics" folder found in "Road to Wagram & Peninsular 1.6 CSVs" to "Logistics_orig".

    I then installed your mod (large version given my screen size) in the Mods folder and made sure it was beneath the "Road to Wagram & Peninsular" in the Modding Activation window. I also made sure I selected it and have the yellow box beside it.

    I went into the game to Single Player and then Sandbox but I can see no sign of anything from your mod - no units, OOB etc. (nothing that was not there before).

    I am sure it is something I am doing wrong or something I just do not understand. Thanks for any help anyone can offer.

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    7 years 10 months ago #4 by boxster

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  • Got it working. Thanks again for your hard work in creating this mod. I am off to enjoy a battle now.

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    7 years 10 months ago #5 by kentucky orphan

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  • Is the Wagram and Peninsular Patch 01 still needed ?

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    7 years 10 months ago #6 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • Is the Wagram and Peninsular Patch 01 still needed ?

    No, only the 1.6 version is required. Here's the link: Road To Wagram 1.6

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    7 years 10 months ago #7 by kentucky orphan

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  • Thanks MTG. Nice mod looks good

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    7 years 10 months ago #8 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • Thanks for the kind words. Vive l'Empereur!

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    7 years 8 months ago #9 by Jack ONeill

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  • All,

    Now that I FINALLY have REAL internet access, I have just DL'd the KS Mod. Have looked forward to this for a long time. Will report back soon.

    Jack B)

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    7 years 8 months ago #10 by Saddletank

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  • You're welcome to join us for an MP game any time Jack.

    HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.

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    7 years 8 months ago #11 by Grog

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  • Jack

    there is a KS Nap+portraits at the KS forum. Just Waterloo oob adapted for now but others to follow.

    Its under the nap generals portraits thread.

    Portrait codes for all oobs have been released so anyone can convert others too.

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    7 years 8 months ago - 7 years 8 months ago #12 by Jack ONeill

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  • Tank,

    I fully intend to once my work schedule settles down just a little more. Really looking forward to it. :laugh:

    Grog,

    Thanks. Figured there was something like that around. Will check it out. ;)

    Now, Question - Ran a couple of small SP battles last night. Really like what's been done here. One question - How do you keep the 2nd unit in each Brigade from forming Skirmishers? I like the way it works very much, but there were several times when that unit needed to remain in line of battle, not forming skirmishers, and I couldn't get it to stop. I tried TC'ing the unit but it still did it. It was rather disconcerting to have a unit suddenly change it's formation and leave a gaping hole in your battle-line. Thoughts?

    Otherwise, excellent job. I'm going to have to write a new rifles.csv mod for reducing musket ranges down to 100 yards in SP, (120 yards for a standard musket is still a bit to long IMHO), but that's minor.

    Love the re-written maps. Nice job. Oh yes, I see we still can't get the bloody squares to hold still when they are charged, eh? LOL!

    One more thing - Nice job on the Skirmisher "Cloud-like" formation. It took me a minute to figure out that was the deal.

    Jack B)

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    Last edit: 7 years 8 months ago by Jack ONeill.

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    7 years 8 months ago - 7 years 8 months ago #13 by Jack ONeill

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  • All,

    So, naturally, I started digging around in the OOBs for the _sk units. Great Idea BTW. Have created an entirely separate copy of the KSNap mod to fiddle with. Question I have now is - what does the _1ST mean in the unit designation line in the OOB?

    Thanks,

    Jack B)

    Okay, so the obvious answer was to un-attach the skirmisher Battalion/Detachment and let it run around shooting and/or run away. Cool. Allows me to keep my battle-line intact, more or less.

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    Last edit: 7 years 8 months ago by Jack ONeill.

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    7 years 8 months ago #14 by Saddletank

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  • I don't think I've encountered the skirmish unit leaving a gap in the line. Other units move to fill it, or its taken from the end of the line. You'll find skirmish units are vital to use as they will do lots of damage to formed units and the only effective counter is to face them off with your own skirmishers or run them down with cavalry.

    I'd recommend you play the mod as it is for a while to get a feel of the nuances of the changes, for example we left musket ranges at 120 as that seemed a good compromise due to the fact that units move faster than was historically the case. Reducing the range will unbalance that a little. Note also there are several different ranges for several different weapons and I created a 100yd range for the badly trained Spanish volunteer and civilian units in our Peninsular campaign, so again, putting good quality line troops range down to that level unbalances things again.

    What was the maximum range of the smoothbore musket on the Napoleonic battlefield is open to debate and I've known some pen and paper rules that allow firing out to 200 yds, though at this range effects are limited. A range of 120 in the mod isn't an effective range, only a maximum and moving in to about half this if your boys are brave enough to deliver a volley will really hurt the enemy.

    HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.

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    7 years 8 months ago #15 by Jack ONeill

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  • Tank,

    Twice now formed Battalions in the primary line of battle have changed into skirmish formation as the enemy approached. When they are in skirmish order, they seem susceptible to (a) Cavalry, as they will not stand against them but retreat and (2) as the enemy infantry approach too closely, they will either fall back or retreat, thus leaving a hole in the line which requires some quick thinking to get someone else in there.

    I have fought 6 small actions since the download last night. The overall gameplay is excellent. I am a HUGE fan of skirmishers. If I was not, I wouldn't have put so much time and effort into developing my own version of a useful skirmisher formation sometime back. The idea of skirmishers actually deploying AS useful skirmishers in fantastic. So far, my preferred usefulness for them is to detach them. They are STILL very effective in all their assigned roles, running all over the place and generally being the nuisance they are supposed to be. Awesome!

    As always, there is the difference between "effective" range and "maximum" range. Maximum range for a Brown Bess is approximately 1000 yards. You will not hit anything you are aiming at nor will it penetrate anything. Effective Range is the distance you can actually hit and/or kill someone before the vagaries of powder manufacture and the fitment of ball in the barrel take over. Most of the research I have read, (and mind you we have many of the same books on these subjects), has indicated roughly 100 yards as an effective range for a smoothbore weapon. That being said, 120 yards as a game range perfectly acceptable. I did the mod and left the actual download alone so as to not have to figure out at the last minute why I can't join the game. :) Great idea for the Spanish and Civilian weapons/Skill levels to be reflected that way BTW, IMHO.

    So far, all else seems outstanding. Good job to everyone involved.

    Jack B)

    T - BTW, don't you own a Brown Bess also?

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    7 years 8 months ago #16 by Saddletank

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  • No, I don't own any muskets any more. I had a matchlock and a 17th century replica firelock (flintlock) but sold them when I quit ECW re-enacting years ago. I only once ever fired actual lead ball from one of them. Couldn't hit a thing at 50 or 100 yards!

    I don't think anyone serious would say the maximum range of a Brown Bess was 1000 yds. I suppose it might throw a ball that far it you pointed it 30 deg up in the air though! I suppose maximum range is thought to be the maximum it was used by troops on a battlefield with any hope of it being a deterrent and that would be around 200 yds or a bit more, maybe 300. Effective range was around 90-100 but really dangerous range was about 50-60. Remember nobody in a close-order formation aimed at all in this period, you just pointed the dangerous end in the enemy's direction and hoped, but the speed of drill expected of the men meant there was no time to properly aim and no training given for that. I think the Brown Bess had no sights either.

    Our group should talk about the skirmishers leaving a gap. It was set as the 2nd unit as a brigade might only be 2 units. I guess it could be the third unit in a brigade. Or the last, whichever that is. That would eliminate any gaps. Yes the skirmishers fall back when enemy push within 80 yds (IIRC), that's intended and they'll definitely be doing the right thing if they retire away from enemy cavalry as they are dead meat if caught by cav as you'd expect. I often TC the sk unit once its deployed and that way it won't auto-retire. You risk it being caught in a melee then though, but its a option to play that way.

    HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.

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    7 years 8 months ago #17 by Jack ONeill

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  • T,

    That's right. we talked about matchlocks and such a long time ago. I must be thinking about that. LOL!

    You are correct and I miss-spoke while typing. I should have differentiated between "Maximum Range" and "Maximum Effective Range." (Example - my M16A3 had a maximum range of over half a mile (2000 yards). No-one ever expected to hit anything at that range). It's Maximum EFFECTIVE range was about 700-800 yards with a decent scope. A Brown Bess could kill someone at around 300 yards. After that, the muzzle velocity drops off so much that it was just a lead lump after that. No, the Brown Bess didn't have sights. You are precisely correct there. "Hold your fire until you see the whites of their eyes" was not just a saying, it was tactical doctrine.

    Yes, it happened again last night. Tried to take a screenshot but was busy salvaging the Battle-line. OOB - Italy 1809. Me - Durrutte's Division. After advancing on the objective, I was deploying for action. Leclare's Brigade formed my left. I deployed it in double-line of battle, no skirmishers out front (no need to, the enemy was here). The Austrians came on strong. The 2nd Battalion deployed as Skirmishers, fired a bit, and fell back as the Austrians advanced, leaving a gap, which the Austrians promptly tried to exploit. I grabbed the 4th. Battalion directly behind it and rolled it forward to plug the hole. I did manage to drive them back.

    I will say how much I love the new way battle-lines now deploy with Skirmishers in the advance. The visual effect is excellent and I DO use them when moving to the attack. Otherwise, like you, I TC them and Detach them to run around and generally piss people off. Am really digging the "Cloud" effect of the Skirmisher formation.

    Well Done to everybody! :laugh:

    Jack B)

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    7 years 8 months ago #18 by Jack ONeill

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  • OMG!!!!! I was fighting with the Brits in Spain and just realized they form up IN TWO RANKS!!!!!!! Outstanding!!! If that was written down somewhere, I missed it. F-ing Fabulous!!!!

    Again, great job!

    (Meanwhile, back to the fighting!)

    Jack B)

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    7 years 8 months ago #19 by Grog

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    7 years 8 months ago #20 by Saddletank

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  • Glad you are enjoying the reworked mod Jack. 90% of the work was done by Marching thru Georgia and a number of us did some testing and threw ideas at him but he's the techy wizard when it comes to doing clever things with NSD files. The new cavalry effectiveness is all his work.

    We didn't like the fact the game had no way to represent defence of buildings so we have worked in a very crude means to do that. MTG has released a few maps with some small square stone wall enclosures added at key points where there are buildings and you can occupy each one of these with one battalion in a square formation. This then gives about the best representation we could come up with of defending a built-up area. THink of it as depicting a single strong stone or brick building in an otherwise less sturdily constructed farm or village - it could be a walled farm, a church, a granary or just some walled enclosures. The square formation inside allows fire out in all directions (though most goes to the side the flag is in) and the square is the toughest formation to melee in. We also gave these particular wall enclosures an extremely high cover value. A unit can last around 10 to 15 minutes in one unsupported but with support its possible to hold a village or town for a good long fight of up to an hour.

    I think that so far only the Alpine and Culps Hil maps have these added but there was some work on adding them to the Brandy Station and Gettysburg 5m maps too.

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    7 years 7 months ago #21 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • Hi Jack, glad you are enjoying the mod and thanks for the kind words.

    Otherwise, excellent job. I'm going to have to write a new rifles.csv mod for reducing musket ranges down to 100 yards in SP, (120 yards for a standard musket is still a bit to long IMHO), but that's minor.

    You'll want to be careful in doing that. The problem is that the infantry auto-charges at 40yd. Since units do not typically engage at maximum distance, but something less, you'll likely see more melees at the shorter distance.

    How do you keep the 2nd unit in each Brigade from forming Skirmishers?

    You don't. There is only one fighting formation for each class. So if we are to have skirmishers automatically deployed on the battlefield by the AI, then the skirmisher classes will always deploy that way. Hopefully, SOWWL will employ their automatic deployment in a more cleaver manner.

    Question I have now is - what does the _1ST mean in the unit designation line in the OOB?

    In theory, all French units were able to fight as skirmishers if need be. However, this would give the French player a large advantage, since he could place all his battalions in skirmish and waste the enemy lines in short order. As a compromise, I allow the first battalion of most French and a few appropriate allies brigades to be manually deployed that way. The AI won't use them in that formation.

    When they are in skirmish order, they seem susceptible to (a) Cavalry, as they will not stand against them but retreat and (2) as the enemy infantry approach too closely, they will either fall back or retreat, thus leaving a hole in the line which requires some quick thinking to get someone else in there.

    By design, the skirmishers will fall back when the enemy comes within 75yd. That was the typical method of driving them away if the enemy didn't have his own skirmishers to shield the line. Also, they are very weak if caught in a melee and will be butchered. You can put them in a klumpen if they are charged by cavalry, but it is not as strong as a formal square.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #22 by Jack ONeill

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  • MTG (and all),

    Understand all this. Stupendous job.

    Have found a way to deal with this issue. I have been detaching the Skirmisher battalions to operate essentially on their own. Here's what happens next - the newly designated 2nd battalion on the list in the brigade still forms as skirmishers, (whether designated or not in the OOB), in the main line of battle. This happens with any Nation's units. Best thing I've found it to keep the Skirmishers attached and just let them run around the field. I don't even try to keep them around, just let them run around and generally be annoying. All the rest of the Battalions in the Brigade do what they are supposed to do, stay in line and blaze away. If/When the skirmishers are routed, then there is another story. Oh well...

    Anyway, if too much stupid doesn't happen, (ha-ha, fat chance), I should be able to join you all at the end of the month. I've registered at the Forum but haven't been able to really check it out, yet.

    Jack B)

    Oh yes, regarding the French skirmishing - Most studies I've read tend to agree that the French Infantry tended to not be able to do so much as the wars progressed. After 1809 the loss of so many experienced soldats led to more artillery support being required and columns of assault to keep the newer lads moving forward.

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    Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by Jack ONeill.

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    7 years 7 months ago #23 by Martin James

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  • Hey Jack

    Glad you’re going to be joining us for games! There are occasionally problems with K/S forum registration at the moment, due to work that’s currently underway to upgrade our website. Do let me know if you have any difficulty posting there.

    You’re right that the French skirmish ability tended to decline later in the wars. This is a subject we have discussed at some length within our group. At the moment the KSNapoleon mod adopts a somewhat generic approach to skirmishing, for practical reasons. Nevertheless some account is taken of differences in skirmishing ability between the various armies. In the future, it will hopefully be possible to have a fuller treatment of both ‘national’ characteristics and also changes over time.

    Martin

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    7 years 7 months ago #24 by Jack ONeill

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  • MJ,

    So, played again last night. I think I've figured this out.

    Played Div. Cmd. as Gudin. The picture shows Boyer's Brigade under fire. The Battalion moving forward is not the original designated skirmish battalion. That unit was detached and is running around being annoying. As can be seen in the screenshot the AI has overridden the non-skirmish designation and is deploying it as skirmishers. Now, granted, I have clicked on the "Line with Skirmishers" icon, so this is what happened.

    So, It all depends on what formation one is using. If a unit is not a skirmisher-designated Battalion, it will stay in line with the rest of the brigade and only go out if the formation requires it. I will continue to test this so I don't get caught out again. Yes, if the 2nd or 3rd battalion in order IS a skirmisher battalion, it WILL deploy as skirmishers, (French Light Infantry Battalions in Brigade battleline being the obvious reference here.)

    Yes, the generic version of balanced skirmish units is a good idea.

    Jack B)


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    7 years 7 months ago #25 by Saddletank

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  • I'm slightly reluctant to endorse your tactic of detaching the sk unit and "sending it off to be annoying elsewhere". I'm fairly confident that skirmishers remained always under the command of their brigade and didn't do their thing freestyle.

    Should I assume you don't play with couriers? Detaching a sk unit with the courier system would most likely get it beaten up pretty badly fairly quickly because your control becomes more limited and neds a direct LoC to all units.

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    7 years 7 months ago #26 by Jack ONeill

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  • T,

    I absolutely see the advantages of both versions - attached and unattached skirmisher units.

    As someone who has been under fire, I can attest to how difficult it would have been to maintain communication with a skirmishing unit with all hell going on around you.

    I have 4 reasons for detaching the skirmishers from their parent Brigade -
    1) As they ARE skirmishers, they belong out there doing their thing, not in the line of battle.

    2) If they are drawn back into the line of battle, when the enemy closes, they form as skirmishers and run off when the enemy units reach 80 yards distance, (the aforementioned gap in the line).

    (3) If I want to change the Brigade formation, The skirmishers will either (a) stop skirmishing and try to return to the formation, which will disrupt the formation as units move aside to fit the skirmishers back into their previously assigned spot. Under fire, this is not a great idea. Generally, they will stop returning and open fire, leaving the parent unit formation missing said unit.

    (4) We cannot give unit specific orders, such as "Major LeClerc, take the skirmish Companies out 200 yards and blaze away at the enemy battle-line. If they push you, fall back firing. Do this until we advance, then screen us as we attack." I will leave the skirmishers attached as I advance, (it looks great AND is effective), but generally detach them if I'm in a static or defensive position. They can fire and fall back, as in real life, while I concentrate on where the main enemy attack will hit and adjust accordingly.

    My (albeit limited) experience so far is they can take care of themselves, unless attacked by Cav, then they are screwed anyway. Also, I like being able to have them run around to a position on the flank of the enemy line and blaze away into them as the formed troops trade fire.

    Anyway, just my two cents, (allowing for inflation).

    Yes, I go back and forth on using couriers.

    Jack B)

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    7 years 7 months ago #27 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • The one advantage to detaching the skirmishers is that when they engage, they don't drag the rest of the brigade into the fight. That's a shortcoming of the game engine. When one battalion comes under fire all the others maneuver around to join the fight. With the skirmishers detached, they can do their thing and the rest of the parent formation is maintained. However, if they are pushed back to their own lines, it would be better to re-attach them.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    7 years 7 months ago #28 by Jack ONeill

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  • MTG,

    Agreed. They are generally a spent force by then. Attaching them again keeps them out of the way at the end of the battle-line where, if they do form skirmishers, it doesn't disrupt the rest of the line. I've done that also.

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    "Molon Labe"

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    7 years 7 months ago #29 by Saddletank

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  • If they are pushed back you can always TC them and form them in close order.

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    7 years 7 months ago #30 by Jack ONeill

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  • ...and I have done so, only to see them form as skirmishers as soon as the enemy is close enough, even when TC'd. The AI overrides the command. I've tried this a number of times. If they'd stay in the formation selected while TC'd, I'd be good with that, but they don't.

    Jack B)

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    "Molon Labe"

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