Statistics

Users
2807
Articles
156
Articles View Hits
1656074

Cavalry and Infantry

10 years 21 hours ago #1 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Gentlemen,

    I'm sure by now you've all seen the following situation - Cavalry standing just out of charge range while an Infantry unit blazes away at them at under 120 yards. Can something be done about this? No horsemen in their right minds would just sit there and get shot without charging OR moving off. Your thoughts on this please.

    I say one of two things - either extend the Cavalry auto-charge reach to, say, 150 yards, shorten the Infantry musket range to 100 yards (or maybe 99), or a little of both.

    My real thoughts on this are - If the Cav can charge from farther out, the Infantry must decide one of two things - quickly form square or stand and fire, hoping to drive them off or damage them enough to win in melee.

    Gentlemen, your ideas.

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 15 hours ago - 10 years 15 hours ago #2 by gunship24

  • NSD QA Team
  • NSD QA Team

  • Posts: 693
  • Thank you received: 381

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Replied by gunship24 on topic Re: Cavalry and Infantry
    This is on my list of things to sort out. Auto charge range is hard coded so that cant be changed. Experimenting with the cavalry brigade leader attributes might make them more responsive, as I think in all the OOBs I did they were the same for all commanders. Reducing the musket range is the obvious fix, the only issue would be the units coming closer together, and the more closer they get the more they might charge at each other. Finding a way for the cavalry to be more responsive when taking fire, if possible, would be the best course.

    As a side point I dont recall having this issue in the stock game with cavalry, but then again they would dismount and fire thier equally ranged muskets. In the mod they do have a 'dummy' musket with max range 99yards. I was hoping that this would force them to close the distance and by doing so enter the auto charge range. Doesnt seem to work though.
    Last edit: 10 years 15 hours ago by gunship24.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 8 hours ago #3 by alessillo

  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member

  • Posts: 89
  • Thank you received: 79

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 07 Jan 1966
  • Replied by alessillo on topic Re: Cavalry and Infantry
    Jack,
    in my Zulu mod there is the same problem, sometime Zulu units are at 104 yards from the enemy and are wiped out without reaction. I think that the solution is in Norb's hands, if in the game there will be units without firearms as principal armament, then we will see true cavalry charges. Two years ago I made these requests to Norb norbsoftdev.net/index.php/forum/napoleonic-era/10188-some-requests-about-modding, so I think that we have to wait and enjoy the great work of gunship24.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 7 hours ago #4 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Al,

    Agreed. I know we can shorten the musket range. I can do that and know where it is in the files. What I need to know is IF we can increase the charge range of the Cav. That I don't know, or even where to start. I've probably seen it but didn't realizr what I was looking at, since I wasen't looking for that at the time.

    Gunship, I apologize for possibly overstepping my bounds here. This is YOUR Mod and you should have the deciding voice on what we change around here. Please weigh in on all this.
    Thanks.

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 7 hours ago #5 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Oh...Duh...you did already. Teach me not to check all the posts before I run on at the mouth. :whistle:

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 6 hours ago #6 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • ALL!

    Found something in the "Rifles" file. There is a French and a German musket designated as a "sk" weapon - obviously for skirmishers. Max range - 130 yards. If anyone wants to use this, with Gunships permission, I will re-write some of the OOBs with this weapon in the hands of some the Light/Legere/Voltiguer Battalions. I believe this extended range will offset the heavy casualties the skirmishers take now when facing formed troops. I've also dropped the standard musket range to 99 yards to get the Cav to charge. Will test this later today and see what happens.

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"
    The following user(s) said Thank You: Leatherneck24

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 4 hours ago - 10 years 4 hours ago #7 by Leatherneck24

  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member

  • Posts: 60
  • Thank you received: 6

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • 130 sounds very nice! B) Skirmisher screens would really come in handy when you want to keep a larger body tied down on a sector that you do not have a lot of friendly forces. Most times I do not use the skirmishers in an advance, but use them to cover my flanks from a surprise or to chase down routing battalions.

    Jack I got found very large cavalry battles in the early 1809 campaign that include 64 squadrons on one side alone!!! The austrians had about 35 I believe. Now we just need those heavy cavalry and we would be in business. I shall post the OOB sometime just to be used for later. ;)

    LN

    Pas de charge! In the name of God, En Avant!-En avant, vive L'Empereur!
    Last edit: 10 years 4 hours ago by Leatherneck24.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 3 hours ago #8 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • All,

    Just ran a quick check thru the OOBs. Turns out the French and Austrian Skirmisher Battalions already have the "sk" musket with the longer ranger range. That would be the Voltiguer and Jager Battalions only, NOT the Legere Battalions. The Bavarian Light Troops do not.

    So, I will do a quick edit to the Arnhofen OOB and see how the Bavarian light battalions do with it. Should be ready later tonite.

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 3 hours ago #9 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • File Attachment:

    File Name: OOB_SB_NAP...1-30.csv
    File Size:20 KB


    All,

    Yes, it was a quick edit for Arnhofen. The Bav Lights can now carry the French skirmisher musket with the 130 yard range. Posting it now. If we want it for all the others, we will have to edit ALL the OOBs. It is easy, but it will take some time. I await your words of wisdom.

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"
    Attachments:
    The following user(s) said Thank You: Michael Slaunwhite, Leatherneck24

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 2 hours ago #10 by Leatherneck24

  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member

  • Posts: 60
  • Thank you received: 6

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • I would say the Bavarians and any german force should have the 130 range because a certain percentage carried the rifle. The French volts and french light infantry probably should as well as they were well know for their skirmishing. Even grenzers because this was their role to push off other skirmishing troops. So probably for game play I would think all light troops who can skirmish should have this ability.

    However, gunship has the final say and should be tested by him to see what he thinks.

    Pas de charge! In the name of God, En Avant!-En avant, vive L'Empereur!

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 1 hour ago #11 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • LN,

    Bavarian light troops - yes
    Voltiguers - yes
    Jagers - Yes
    Legere - not really. By this mid-period of the Wars, French Legere battalions were considered more like their Ligne brothers rather than true Light Infantry, and rarely deployed their battalions as a whole as skirmishers.
    Grenzers - Same thing. Though starting out as Borger Guard/Light troops, by 1809 they too had become more or less line troops. Also, the Austrian High Command, with their constant worries about desertion,tended to keep non-German/Hungarian regiments together, rather than give them the option to bug-out during a skirmish line action. (Frederick the Great thought so too.)

    I agree, we'll need Gunships call on this.

    Did you try out the updated OOB?

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    10 years 22 minutes ago - 9 years 11 months ago #12 by Leatherneck24

  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member

  • Posts: 60
  • Thank you received: 6

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Yup it is pretty awesome. My Bavarian light battalion performed(wow not even close on my spelling after a long battle :( ) wonders on the East cavalry field tonight! I set both of the split up battalion in skirmish order to protect my two battalions deploying behind them. Support by my light bavarian arty which caused 350 casualites to no loss and backed up by Zandt brigade of horse I was able to stop a whole brigade! The trick with the 130 yard range is when they come right in range start hitting withdrawl button so they keep firing but still stay in contact with the enemy.

    I am not sure I agree with you about legere. Look at Teugen Hausen and as most of the good battles were fought by the 3rd Corps which was a veteran unit with the best division probably in the army under St. Hilaire I would say legere should skirmish. However, that is up to you, but from a game stand point and being fair I think all light infantry will need to skirmish. Maybe we could have some of the lesser skirmishers at the normal range and the dedicated light troops at the 130yards.

    LN

    Pas de charge! In the name of God, En Avant!-En avant, vive L'Empereur!
    Last edit: 9 years 11 months ago by Leatherneck24.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    9 years 11 months ago #13 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • LN,

    I think Legere infantry can/should skirmish in the game. They have the symbol for it on the toolbar, as opposed to the Ligne units who don't. They should keep their regular muskets, though.

    My comment was based on a number of passages I have read, all generally agreeing as the Wars went on, quality in most ligne and legere units fell off, (replacements, casualties, desertion, etc.), leaving only the light companies well trained enough to really do it right. Also, except for the 3rd. French Corps, the others were either allied or cobbed together sort-of, like Oudinot's 2nd Corps. I've really got to write that article about his Corps, soon.

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    9 years 11 months ago #14 by Leatherneck24

  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member

  • Posts: 60
  • Thank you received: 6

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Don't forget a lot of the good men who could of become NCOs or even officers for the line troops went to the many different formations of the guard.

    Pas de charge! In the name of God, En Avant!-En avant, vive L'Empereur!

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    9 years 11 months ago #15 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • LN,

    Yes, very true. Always thought that was a mistake.

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    9 years 11 months ago #16 by gunship24

  • NSD QA Team
  • NSD QA Team

  • Posts: 693
  • Thank you received: 381

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Replied by gunship24 on topic Re: Cavalry and Infantry
    I just played a game using the 1.4beta patch using the Eggmuhl OOB and cavalry seemed more likely to retire 100 yards or so instead of staying there taking it. Anyone else seen a change or did I just get lucky?

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    9 years 11 months ago #17 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Gun,

    Yes, happened to me last night, only it was Artillery fire. One of my French Squadrons fell back for seemingly no reason. Thought it was a little weird at the time, but all hell was breaking loose and I was needed elsewhere. Will keep an eye out for it.

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    9 years 10 months ago #18 by gunship24

  • NSD QA Team
  • NSD QA Team

  • Posts: 693
  • Thank you received: 381

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Replied by gunship24 on topic Re: Cavalry and Infantry
    I have noticed since the patch, although it might of been there before, that cavalry wont, or are very reluctant, to auto charge if you Take Command of them. I tested this by running several squadrons at infantry. Some were TCed and some weren't and the TCed ones didnt auto charge.

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    9 years 10 months ago #19 by Jack ONeill

  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member

  • Posts: 1885
  • Thank you received: 251

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
  • Gun,

    Thanks. I'll run some tests and verify this. Thanks.

    Jack B)

    American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

    "Molon Labe"

    Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

    Moderators: ShirkonChamberlainFlanyboy