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DRM

11 years 11 months ago #61 by BOSTON

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  • Replied by BOSTON on topic Re:DRM
    norb wrote:

    I sort of like the idea of selling the installs. 2-5-10 packs. If you need more you buy more and the price point reflects the installs. So people that maybe have a limited budget could go in with some friends and pick it up.

    2 - $19.99 (one install, one backup)
    5 - $39.99
    10 - $59.99

    In this method, if you run out, you have to buy more. I allows people on a limited budget to get the game cheap. People could pool with friends if they want. It would be easy to buy a bunch and set up a lan party.

    Not sure if this would be accepted or not, but it certainly would make this whole thing easier on our limited tech support department :)


    By any chance did you see the prices on Hist-war and Total War? The Hist-War collectors edition is a little south of $100 delivered to the USA, ETW was in the range of $40 to $50, I forgot what it was since buying it. Think about it. I for one, would like for you to stay in business.

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    11 years 11 months ago #62 by norb-1

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  • Replied by norb-1 on topic Re:DRM
    I could just drop the 2 install option for the initial release, and add it as an option later down the road.

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    11 years 11 months ago #63 by tmastern

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  • Replied by tmastern on topic Re:DRM
    BOSTON wrote:

    norb wrote:

    I sort of like the idea of selling the installs. 2-5-10 packs. If you need more you buy more and the price point reflects the installs. So people that maybe have a limited budget could go in with some friends and pick it up.

    2 - $19.99 (one install, one backup)
    5 - $39.99
    10 - $59.99

    In this method, if you run out, you have to buy more. I allows people on a limited budget to get the game cheap. People could pool with friends if they want. It would be easy to buy a bunch and set up a lan party.

    Not sure if this would be accepted or not, but it certainly would make this whole thing easier on our limited tech support department :)


    This is a real interesting idea. The low price option would allow people who aren't sure if this would be their type of game to try it. Might actually be a way to increase sales in the long run.....

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    11 years 11 months ago #64 by AP514

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  • Replied by AP514 on topic Re:DRM

    BOSTON wrote:

    This is a real interesting idea. The low price option would allow people who aren't sure if this would be their type of game to try it. Might actually be a way to increase sales in the long run.....

    But the DEMO will do that.....

    Norb:
    All in all it comes down to you.... but I feel that in the intial release, people that are going to buy, already have made up their minds and will....
    As far as DRM options.. im still for #1 and this is why

    ........DRM will not stop a Theif........

    Now the DRM is to keep an Honest man Honest.. So, why have the option #2 with 5, 10 installs.. This is just like have'n a party and leave'n 40/80 dollars on the table.
    Example....my buddy comes over for a Lan (the examples give'n in thread) He likes the game. Well, I have extra installs here you go have one of mine. Dave you like it too... have a install buddy.... 2 sales gone
    Now im being the devils avocate here(above). But I feel if your going to buy a copy and need another one for a Lan, your laptop, Ect. Then buy another one.

    AP514

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    11 years 11 months ago #65 by norb-1

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  • Replied by norb-1 on topic Re:DRM
    You have a great point, and it's quite possible that I go that way at first.

    What I hate, even though I may do it anyway because it's necessary, is that people that have really supported this team, been the most frequent to these forums, are going to end up paying the most. Other people will wait until the price comes down, see how it's reviewed, they pay less. Not that I mind them paying less, it's just that I hate the idea that your biggest supporters pay the most.

    I'll have a pre-release sale :)

    Many of the team members feel as you do AP. I think option 1 is the most fair. Maybe add the other options later, maybe get a dvd going later. It's all great input.

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    11 years 11 months ago #66 by 8th Alabama

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  • Replied by 8th Alabama on topic Re:DRM
    I'll buy two games to get ya going, do I hear 3 anyone!?

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    11 years 11 months ago #67 by Davinci

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  • Replied by Davinci on topic Re:DRM
    It would be great to have the first one install for around twenty dollars , and later being able to purchase a dvd that contains the game, manual, patch, sdk, etc…

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    11 years 11 months ago #68 by jri

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  • Replied by jri on topic Re:DRM
    Help me understand this. I downloaded TCM2 from Gamersgate. I have installed it several times on the same machine, because I corrupted the game trying to install the mods. Are you saying I would be stuck with only five? I could do that in one year between bad mod attempts and messing up windows!

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    11 years 11 months ago #69 by Hancock the Superb

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  • Replied by Hancock the Superb on topic Re:DRM
    Norb:

    Your biggest supporters are always willing to pay a few extra bucks for such a game.

    That's why we're here, so you can make a profit, and we have fun.

    Hancock the Superb

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    11 years 11 months ago #70 by norb-1

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  • Replied by norb-1 on topic Re:DRM
    jri wrote:

    Help me understand this. I downloaded TCM2 from Gamersgate. I have installed it several times on the same machine, because I corrupted the game trying to install the mods. Are you saying I would be stuck with only five? I could do that in one year between bad mod attempts and messing up windows!


    In both models you can reinstall to the same machine as many times as you need to.

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    "Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” - Gamaliel 40 A.D.

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    11 years 11 months ago #71 by ratters72

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  • Replied by ratters72 on topic Re:DRM
    Norb:

    Just don't sell yourself short. I think most people on here have their fair share of indie games, and are generally happy to pay full price for a product they enjoy and get to see improving.

    I like the idea if you buy in the first week? month? or something you get a DVD. Shouldn't cost heaps (international post??). include some maps, wallpapers, e-manual?, pictures of hot MILFs, biograhies or the like. That's a bit of work i gues. No rush, tell people 2-3 months or something.

    But yeah, we get the most out of the game so it all works out fair in the end.

    I have my $87,645,876 worth of cold hard confederate money ready. hope it's enough.

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    11 years 11 months ago #72 by Gfran64

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  • Replied by Gfran64 on topic Re:DRM
    Norb,

    Don't leave money on the table.

    Greg B)

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    11 years 11 months ago #73 by norb-1

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  • Replied by norb-1 on topic Re:DRM
    ratters72 wrote:

    But yeah, we get the most out of the game so it all works out fair in the end.

    I have my $87,645,876 worth of cold hard confederate money ready. hope it's enough.


    Contact me if we ever get a DVD done and I'm sure I'll set a good confed money price :)

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    11 years 11 months ago #74 by Amish John

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  • Replied by Amish John on topic Re:DRM
    Going waaaaaayyy back to the release of the 1st Bull Run game by Madminute, weren't there some discussions at that time that potential customers may have passed on the game because their thinking was "How good can this game be if it's so cheap?". I'd hate to have people think this was a bargain bin game because you priced it too low. Plus, you're going to need at least enough profits to take the wife and kids on that nice vacation to compensate for the time away from them during the game development.

    You can get farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.

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    11 years 11 months ago #75 by norb-1

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  • Replied by norb-1 on topic Re:DRM
    Amish John wrote:

    Going waaaaaayyy back to the release of the 1st Bull Run game by Madminute, weren't there some discussions at that time that potential customers may have passed on the game because their thinking was "How good can this game be if it's so cheap?". I'd hate to have people think this was a bargain bin game because you priced it too low. Plus, you're going to need at least enough profits to take the wife and kids on that nice vacation to compensate for the time away from them during the game development.


    You are correct, I certainly was considering that idea, that it was too cheap.

    I'll have to set it at $100 a copy, because if I'm going to give them a vacation comparable the time I've spent working, it's gotta be Hawaii!

    NSD Programmer/Producer
    "Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” - Gamaliel 40 A.D.

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    11 years 11 months ago #76 by Richmond

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  • Replied by Richmond on topic Re:DRM
    Norb,

    I feel like I still owe you money for all the good times I've had with TC2M, and I trust you, so set a price that's fair to you and your team and I'll pay it.

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    11 years 11 months ago - 11 years 11 months ago #77 by Braxton Bragg

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  • Replied by Braxton Bragg on topic Re:DRM
    Hi Norb, Option 1 seems good, years ago I found Bull run Sim by accident on the net it was a small demo with a couple of small brigades, I was stunned how this looked the way the troops moved formed line and well just the whole god damned thing :lol:
    So of course I bought the game Wow best game I ever played, then came TCM2, even better and all those maps, Mods etc, I still play TCM2 at least once a week, so yes we who support you have are happy to pay top end $ (in my case £) and I am happy with any download restriction there maybe.

    That said I rather like the idea of a reasonable price for the download, with the option later with any mods etc or updates being available on CD which you purchase at a small price.

    Oh and I like the Idea of (some maps, wallpapers, e-manual?, pictures of hot MILFs, biograhies or the like) :laugh:

    Braxton Bragg

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    Last edit: 11 years 11 months ago by Braxton Bragg.

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    11 years 11 months ago #78 by UglyElmo

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  • Replied by UglyElmo on topic Re:DRM
    I think #1 is the more palatable option for DRM.

    I would just like you to include a reminder to deactivate the game, when you hit the uninstall button. I have several games in which I uninstalled, and forgot to deactivate first.

    What I think would be the best DRM is if Norb gave us his personal cell phone number so we could call him any time of day or night and say;

    "Hey Norb!, Yup, this is UglyElmo again."
    "Third time this week?"
    "It's 3 am. there? Really? Wow! Bad case of insomnia you have there."
    "Could you look up my reg code again? I had to uninstall Scourge."
    "Well, my hard-drive is much too small I guess."
    "You're right, I probably SHOULD get a larger hard-drive but this one is full of Pr0n and I would hate to lose all those nice pics, so I just uninstall/re-install Scourge Of War whenever I need more space."
    "Plus, I kind of like speaking with you and offering you advice on what needs to be added to the game."
    "Oh wait, Someone's at the door."



    "Looks like I will have to get back with you Norb."
    "Some detective wants to speak with me downtown for a bit."
    "Something about stalking and harassing phone calls, but it'll be 'ok'"
    "Can I use you as a character reference?"
    "Don't worry, they told me I get one phone call, we can speak in a bit."
    "Cya!"

    :woohoo:

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    11 years 11 months ago #79 by norb-1

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  • Replied by norb-1 on topic Re:DRM
    hah!!

    I am not the best tech support person. My family won't even call me because I have 0 patience. You should have heard me working with JC to get him connected to the ftp. Not good. I don't use a cell anyway. I don't like to be instantly accessible.

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    11 years 11 months ago #80 by Hancock the Superb

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  • Replied by Hancock the Superb on topic Re:DRM
    Maybe, you could have it automatically deactivate when you uninstall it!

    Hancock the Superb

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    11 years 11 months ago #81 by gray100

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  • Replied by gray100 on topic Re:DRM
    Am not the most technical of computer people but here's my 2 pennies worth. I want a game i can buy / download, play solo (without going online) or online. I do not want the c**p of anything like steam! bought empire total war and it's still in the box uninstalled. I don't want to run third party programmes (steam) every time I want to play and waste hours as friends have due to upgrades from slow / busy servers. I was so waiting for Silent Hunter 5 but have lost interest as can only play via UBISOFT servers so no thanks. I have waited long time for this game after years of fun with the MMG games and hope this is possible. If so Norb name your price! I want it and the mortgage only has 6 months to go! You alone know what it has taken to put all this together and I have no problem in rewarding you for your efforts, just tell me how to pay and the money is yours.

    Gray

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    11 years 11 months ago #82 by norb-1

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  • Replied by norb-1 on topic Re:DRM
    I agree. I can't stand having to run some other app to play my game. Drives me crazy. I don't want to be online every time I play. I don't mind online activation once when I install. But nothing else.

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    11 years 11 months ago #83 by UglyElmo

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  • Replied by UglyElmo on topic Re:DRM
    Norb you are man dear to my heart! My wife and 2 kids all have cell phones, but I refuse to get one. I too do not like people to have instant access to me wherever I might be.

    I tell people when they ask me why I don't have a cell phone: "I save a lot of money by not having any friends who would want to call me!" hehe

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    11 years 11 months ago #84 by Rob Son of Paul

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  • Replied by Rob Son of Paul on topic Re:DRM
    Copy protection only gives grief to legit purchasers of a product. The warez crowd just cracks it and has no issues to play offline.

    How about doing what the most successful games do? Have a key code to install and then a login/pw associated with the key to play online?

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    11 years 11 months ago #85 by Hancock the Superb

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  • Replied by Hancock the Superb on topic Re:DRM
    It would be a good idea to, like Rob said, look at the best games, and copy those to the best of your abilities (in terms of selling).

    Hancock the Superb

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    11 years 11 months ago #86 by Flanyboy

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  • Replied by Flanyboy on topic Re:DRM
    I don't have a new enough computer to run this game when it comes out. :(

    I will surely buy it a year or two when I do have money!!!

    Just a comment on pricing. I know most people are on tight budgets, as a College student I understand that all to well. Yet I really hope you don't sell yourself short Norb. I know it depends on the DRM system you use. (I have never used DRM but am willing to try for this game)

    Just for a point of reference, I don't know how many people play the Matrix Games, "War in the Pacific" and "War in the Pacific Admirals Edition" but I would compare this game to those in its epic scale and repeatability level. I paid 60, and 80 dollars for those games and would fully expect to pay somewhere in that range... I know you said you expect it to be under 50 but I do hope it is near 50.

    50 dollars just seems the standard minimum for most new and substantive games these days. Plus when inflation increases in a year or so as a result of all this spending by... (sorry didn't mean to get political).

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    11 years 11 months ago #87 by norb-1

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  • Replied by norb-1 on topic Re:DRM
    To look at a AAA title and follow the same criteria makes no sense at all. We won't be advertised on national TV like Bioshock2. We won't be on store shelves for 10+ years like Diablo & Starcraft. Please keep posts to making some sort of sense. Give us 30 million and we'll do the same as the best titles out there. Until then we'll do what we need to do to survive, and if you don't like it please go spend 4+ years of your free time writing your own game and then put it up on the net for people to download for free.

    Just because people are going to shoplift anyway, doesn't mean that I'm not going to put in cameras and security. If you want to make it easy for people to steal your product, be my guest. Give it away, people have the right to do what they want with their own game. Just as we have the right to do what we want with ours.

    This thread was not started to debate DRM, but to get an idea about what seems the least obtrusive to the community. Just because people are going to steal, doesn't mean that I have to make it easy for them.

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    11 years 11 months ago #88 by BOSTON

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  • Replied by BOSTON on topic Re:DRM
    What is "DRM"? Been following the thread, but not sure what DRM is. :blush:

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    11 years 11 months ago #89 by Little Powell

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  • Replied by Little Powell on topic Re:DRM
    BOSTON wrote:

    What is "DRM"? Been following the thread, but not sure what DRM is. :blush:


    Digital Rights Management. :)

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    11 years 11 months ago #90 by Flanyboy

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  • Replied by Flanyboy on topic Re:DRM
    Norb if that was directed at my comment I don't think Matrix's War in the Pacific Admirals Edition is a AAA title. Granted I know little about the game industry but I do know that Matrix is the only place where I have seen it for sale via Direct Download. I know its a bigger budget game than yours but I haven't seen any ads outside of people talking about it on gaming websites. It is a very niche game, not many people are willing to play out every single day of WW2 in the pacific one turn at a time when you need to command every single warship, cargo ship, regiment of infantry, fighter squadron etc etc etc...

    That said I understand your a smaller budget production I just don't want to see you selling yourself short. I would pay top dollar for this game when I can eventually play it because I know that the products you produce are just as good as any high end game if not better. I don't do marketing so don't get angry at me I am just saying my perspective. Most people on this forum will pay more than 20 dollars and I don't know how many more sales you will make by having a very under priced version of the game.

    Just don't sell yourself short please. I want you to succeed and I want you to make more games because TCM2 was so fantastic!!! :)

    Whatever you decide I will support your game and any future titles.

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